April 02, 2006
Fox News Sunday

Bill KRISTOL: “I’m a liberal on immigration… What damage have they done that’s so great in 20 years? The anti-immigration forces said 20 years ago, there was an amnesty, which there sort of was, the Simpson- Mazzoli bill, which was pushed by the anti-immigration people, that Ronald Reagan signed.”

(Chris) WALLACE: Bill, I want to ask you about — we got a lot of mail from viewers this last week who said we were too cavalier about this question of enforcing the borders. And, frankly, they pointed to some of your comments in particular about the legitimate need to enforce our borders and to punish those people who broke the law. How do you respond to that?

(BILL KRISTOL, WEEKLY STANDARD)KRISTOL: I’m a liberal on immigration. I mean, I think the Bush approach is right. I think the Senate Judiciary Committee approach is right. If Congressman King thinks that it’s a good idea to go around talking about branding people with the letter A for amnesty, if you (inaudible) see how, to use Brit’s word, repellent that is of an image, you know, for, it’s unbelievable. And the Republican Party will go down the tubes if it takes that position.

I disagree with Mara that it’s threading the needle. Bush needs to step up and repudiate those House Republicans and their rhetoric, and make much more of a public case for his comprehensive immigration reform bill. Look, I’m not cavalier about illegal immigrants. I know that we need to have a serious debate about it. What damage have they done that’s so great in 20 years? The anti-immigration forces said 20 years ago, there was an amnesty, which there sort of was, the Simpson- Mazzoli bill, which was pushed by the anti-immigration people, that Ronald Reagan signed.

What’s happened that’s so terrible in the last 20 years? Is the crime rate up in the United States in the last 20 years? Is unemployment up in the United States in the last 20 years?

(CROSSTALK)

KRISTOL: And they’ve been contributing to the U.S. economy and not damaging U.S. society. There have been marches with Mexican flags, which conservative talk radio is up in arms about. I mean, are these people serious? Are these people — what, are they going to be traitors to the U.S.? An awful lot of Mexican Americans, an awful lot of sons and daughters of illegal immigrants are fighting in the U.S. Army.

(CROSSTALK)

KRISTOL: I am pro-immigration, and I am even soft on illegal immigration.

WALLACE: Well, let me ask you about this, Juan, because I read the e- mails that we get, and people say, particularly in places like Arizona or California, where there is a flood of them, that, you know, we end up having to pay for them. They go to the public schools. They end up, you know, getting welfare or Medicare, Medicaid, things like that. There is a price to illegal immigrants, people who aren’t citizens in this country coming over the border in large numbers.

WILLIAMS: There is a price, and there’s also a benefit, which is to say they benefit the U.S. economy greatly. Now, to your point, Chris, it does put a disproportionate burden on communities where they have a strong influx of immigrants, such as Arizona and some of the border communities, Texas, into California. They have to pay more in terms of hospital costs, the schools, as you pointed out.

But you know, you reach the point where your plan — you’re not catering to fears about illegal immigration, but so much pandering to this fear and encouraging this fear. There is an anchorman on an opposing network — I’ll be polite and not mention him — who is just way, I mean, he has gone bananas, and driving up his numbers.

And what’s he talking about? Illegal immigrants bringing leprosy into the country. At that point, you think, you know what, this is not a logical debate. This is not about substance. This is not about trying to understand the impact of low-income, low-wage workers on other low-wage workers who are already in America, who do you need to protect.

No, this is about pandering to the right-wing base in such a way as to drive up either ratings or election numbers in ’06.

WALLACE: We’ve got 30 seconds, Brit. Is it about pandering?

HUME: On the other hand, the position Bill has taken with a smile on his face that he is soft on illegal immigration, I think is a position that really won’t fly and shouldn’t fly. You simply can’t make a case for immigration reform based on the idea that breaking American laws is OK and ought to be forgiven.

It ought not be forgiven, which is why a combination of enforcement, serious enforcement effort coupled with a guest worker program might be a way to make this work.

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